and your focus on the retirement north carolina deficit -- income deficit. i appreciate the even-handed way you have approach the the hearings. you have your own suggested idea, but you have opened the hearings to witnesses from all directions and that gives us a chance, really, to test senator harkin's proposals wells other proposals and hopefully come to a good conclusion. i thank the witness for being here. i told them earlier, i look forward to hearing what they have to say. of course, we currently have the mandatory retirement plan. my instinct, my preference, would be to explore what we need to do to beef up or strengthen our voluntary retirement plans. we regularly, troubles that both corporate and union defined benefit plans have need to be careful in the changing world that we have where businesses aren't like businesses forty or fifty years ago or in the global marketplace rapidly changing, companies, employers look different than employers did some time ago. we have to be careful about decisions we make here. we're talking about about tens of mill